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Sub-forum Local Call Area&Incoming/Outgoing Rates
June 11, 2009
12:35 am
Heather
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Suggestion to create a sub-forum(s) for Local Calling Area clarification & Incoming/Outgoing local & long distance rates.

There seems to be a lot of discussion & confusion on these topics & the information is quite scattered; some are found under Technical Service Details & a lot of the same discussions/questions are found throughout the Rates & Plans forums.

I really appreciate the information & the work that's gone into this website. Thank you for helping us all out.

June 11, 2009
12:50 am
bc
Vancouver, BC
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hi Heather,

I think this is a good idea!

I'm getting confused on this topic over in this thread:
https://www.speakoutwireless.ca/speak/technical-service-details/changing-sim-cards/page-1/post-8674/#p8674

... after I had thought I got it straight following a reply from you in another thread in a different sub-forum, plus info from SO customer support... 🙂

anyhow, a central place to discuss this and confirmation the definitive answer would be a great help IMO

June 11, 2009
3:16 am
Peter
BC
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I know this discussion has come up several times over the past two years. I'm still confused as to what the definitive answer is (and whether Speak Out has kept the same policy since the beginning). If we can find that answer, I'll update our FAQ and then we can point all future questions on that topic to the FAQ.

These statements are widely accepted as true:

- If you are in your area code's calling grid (as defined at the bottom of FAQ #3) at the time of the call, calls within that grid are local calls
- No matter where you are at the time of the call, calls outside that grid are long distance.

However, it is unclear which of these is true:
- If you are outside your area code's calling grid at the time of the call, all calls are long distance
OR
- No matter where you are at the time of the call, all calls to your area code's calling grid are local calls

June 11, 2009
11:53 am
Heather
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Thanks for your replies Peter & BC. We'll most likely see some definitive answers posted soon, now that travelling season has arrived.

June 11, 2009
12:22 pm
bc
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by the way, in the thread I referenced above, the SO Cust Service agent's reply that I mentioned was received by email on Jun 4/09.

Apologies for repeating the answer here, but I would hope the SO agent's info would be definitive? (and the info matches what Heather said recently elsewhere in another thread, and is contrary to what forum moderator iamdrumming stated in above mentioned thread)

background: I emailed support asking a question about a SO phone bought in Vancouver (604) then my son traveling to Halifax and specifically whether calls between Vancouver and the 604 phone

    while he is in Halifax

their response - quote:

"If your son keeps his Vancouver number, all calls made from his handset
to Vancouver and all calls from Vancouver to his handset will be rated
as local calls. Any calls he makes to Halifax numbers or to numbers
outside the Vancouver calling area will be rated as long distance.
Askspeakout"

again, this was info I received from SO CS on June 4/09

June 11, 2009
3:14 pm
Heather
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BC: I meant to say hopefully we'll see definitive answers from SO users testing calls outside their local area & reporting the rates they're getting. The response you received from Cust Svc is very definitive - let's hope this tests true with everyone.

Peter: Could we post a request for SO users to report their findings from this date onward? Travelling outside your local calling area, what rate are you getting for calls made & received: 1) to numbers within your same local calling area; 2) to numbers not in your local calling area.

Not sure where this should be posted or how we keep track of all the responses. I'm new to all this forum stuff.

June 11, 2009
5:05 pm
iamdrumming
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Here's a copy and paste of my answer in the other thread:

ALL outgoing calls made outside your local calling area are deducted as long distance calls. Period.

Again a direct copy and paste from the Speak Out site:

"While traveling, will my outgoing calls be long distance, if they are local to the city I am visiting?

Yes. You are charged long distance charges for any calls while outside your local calling area. Your phone number is assigned to the area you designate your local area."

With the quote above from SO CS, it seems like you may get a different answer to the same question. It just depends on who you talk to. I have talked to several SO CS agents about some issues, and they all gave me differing answers. Their website has all the information you need.

This is how I read the above quote, since it's only 2 sentences.

The first sentence states that all calls made from the handset WITHIN the Vancouver area will be rated as local calls, since the phone is based in Vancouver.

Second sentence reads:

"Any calls he makes to Halifax numbers or to numbers
outside the Vancouver calling area will be rated as long distance."

ANY calls he makes to Halifax numbers will be rated long distance because he is outside his local calling area (local calling area is Vancouver). The phone is tied to a particular area.

Once again, ALL outgoing calls made outside your local calling area are rated as long distance calls.

June 11, 2009
5:17 pm
iamdrumming
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I will also answer a few questions in this thread.

I have found, as stated above, unfortunately the SO CS's agents are never definitive. However, when in doubt, I'll ALWAYS read the official Speak Out site. It is the most definitive, in my opinion. SO CS can give you differing answers to the same question. That's just the way it is, unfortunately.

I have already tested this. My phone is tied to area code 905. I have traveled up to Barrie (area code 705) and called a Barrie number, while I was in Barrie. I was charged the long distance rate. Also, I went to Ottawa (area 613) and called an Ottawa number, and was charged the long distance rate. Lastly when I was in Montreal, I called a Montreal number, and I was charged the long distance rate.

ALL outgoing calls made while outside your local calling area are charged the long distance rate.

June 11, 2009
5:21 pm
iamdrumming
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bc,

The second sentence in the quote from SO CS says it right there "Any calls he makes to Halifax numbers or to numbers
outside the Vancouver calling area will be rated as long distance."

ANY calls made to Halifax numbers or to numbers OUTSIDE the Vancouver calling area will be rated as long distance. The phone is tied to the Vancouver area, so ANY and ALL outgoing calls made outside the Vancouver local calling area are rated as long distance.

June 11, 2009
5:33 pm
bc
Vancouver, BC
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iamdrumming said:

This is how I read the above quote, since it's only 2 sentences.

The first sentence states that all calls made from the handset WITHIN the Vancouver area will be rated as local calls, since the phone is based in Vancouver.


hi iamdrumming

I think you're right that perhaps you get different answer depending on what CS agent you talk to.

but one clarification about the quote I gave from SO CS (since it's only 2 sentences)

note that the answer was directly in response to the precise question I asked of what happens when the (604) phone is physically located in Halifax. I had clearly asked them about the case where I take the phone OUTSIDE of the Vancouver area.

if you ONLY consider this situation (which is what I asked them to respond to) then their answer1 takes on a different meaning to what you've interpreted above. (no dispute about sentence2)

perhaps the agent was simply wrong, as you say.

note that the faq on this site and info on 7-Eleven's site don't seem to unambiguously answer this scenario.

don't get me wrong, I don't want to argue the info you posted (as I said, I originally thought your answer was the correct one before SO told me otherwise). I just want to get the clear answer, because if what SO told me is wrong, then the usage scenario I was thinking of for my son completely changes.

June 11, 2009
5:38 pm
bc
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iamdrumming said:

I have already tested this. My phone is tied to area code 905. I have traveled up to Barrie (area code 705) and called a Barrie number, while I was in Barrie. I was charged the long distance rate. Also, I went to Ottawa (area 613) and called an Ottawa number, and was charged the long distance rate. Lastly when I was in Montreal, I called a Montreal number, and I was charged the long distance rate.


in your test above, it all makes sense and I 100% agree and understand. but it's still missing *the specific scenario* I was asking about.

Q: if you take your (905) SO phone, then travel to somewhere else, say (705) and from THERE call home (905 number) or receive call from (905), are you charged LD or local? Note that I'm also wondering about incoming calls from your home area.

of course, if this statement...

ALL outgoing calls made while outside your local calling area are charged the long distance rate.

..if this statement trumps all other factors, then it makes sense, again it's what I originally thought would be true. but it still doesn't answer about INcoming calls, and it contradicts what SO CS told me. p.s the reply I quoted from was after a couple email exchanges with them, and then I narrowed the question to the specific scenario I mention in this post.

their reply to *this particular scenario* clearly said it would be charged at local rate.

June 11, 2009
7:55 pm
iamdrumming
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Only outgoing calls outside your local calling area are rated as long distance.

Incoming calls (even if outside your local calling area) are deducted the local rate ($0.25/minute), because the phone call (obviously :)) was not initiated by the Speak Out phone.

I did receive calls while I had my (905 based) Speak Out phone was in Ottawa and Montreal. Both times I was only charged the local rate ($0.25/minute), because the call was incoming.

As with talking to the SO CS, I take their advice with a grain of salt. I would much rather find the info out on the Speak Out site itself, because most of the questions we have have been answered on their site.

Again, I don't see this as an argument. It's a good discussion, although it has been beat like a dead horse many times

June 11, 2009
9:56 pm
bc
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fyi I emailed SO CS again, with a very specifically worded question. I'll report back here what they say. I agree we may have to take each agent's word with a grain of salt (if previous experience with Rogers CS is any indication!)

sorry to bring back the (not quite) dead horse 🙂

June 12, 2009
7:02 am
iamdrumming
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As I said before, you will get differing opinions with each SO CS you may talk to. I would even take the reply you will get with a grain of salt. Lots of times, it seems they offer their personal opinion, and not fact. In all cases their site should be consulted first. This whole local calling area discussion can be summarized in these 2 statements.

ANY and ALL OUTGOING calls (except toll-free calls) outside your calling area are rated as long distance calls.

ANY and ALL INCOMING calls within or outside your local calling area are rated as local calls, because the phone call was not initiated by the Speak Out phone.

I'm really surprised this whole discussion has gone on this long as well.

June 12, 2009
10:30 am
bc
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Hi iamdrumming

sorry to drag on the discussion, really I am! I want to point out something about the 7-Eleven site's info, which you several times have pointed to.

your 2 statements above are very, very clear. I but as far as I can tell, the info on their site never explains it as such (and thus the root of my original confusion). I think even the faq on THIS site doesn't explain it well. (both FAQs really need to be updated on this topic!)

7-Eleven's page simply says the following 2 things quoted below. note that statement 1 doesn't talk about your physical location (but I think they are only talking about being physically in your local area), and statement 2 says nothing about outgoing calls BACK to your home area, while you are traveling.

given this limited context of statements from their site , the recent answer I got from SO CS still SEEMS valid. so basically I'm saying the info on their site is still ambiguous and does not say what you stated (which again I originally thought to be true, ie. your statements)

quote from their site:
---
(1) Are all numbers in my area code considered a local call?

Yes. SpeakOut Wireless offers a larger calling area than traditional Wireless service providers. In fact, many areas in your province are considered a local call. See the current SpeakOut Rates.

(2) While traveling, will my outgoing calls be long distance, if they are local to the city I am visiting?

Yes. You are charged long distance charges for any calls while outside your local calling area. Your phone number is assigned to the area you designate your local area.
---

June 12, 2009
12:28 pm
bc
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here is the exact entire response I got from Speakout CS via email today Jun 12/09:

If you take the phone to Halifax with a Vancouver phone number when you
make a call to Vancouver from Halifax then no it would not be long
distance.
Askspeakout

this is now the 3rd confirmation I have received from SO on this point, again matching what forum reader Heather had first mentioned in another thread.

June 12, 2009
12:50 pm
iamdrumming
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Again, and this will be my last point and message in this thread. I am done beating the dead horse

What SO CS emailed you with totally contradicts with it clearly mentioned on their site. As I said before, I take anything they say with a grain of salt.

On their site it clearly states that if you take a phone that's tied to Vancouver, take it across the country to Halifax, ALL outgoing calls are considered long distance. The phone is tied to Vancouver.

ALL outgoing calls outside your local calling area are rated as long distance, regardless if they are local to the city you are visiting, or if they are outgoing calls back to your home, local calling area. It does NOT matter what number is being called. If you are outside your local calling area, then you are outside, and ALL outgoing calls are rated long distance.

I repeat, ALL, ALL outgoing calls are rated long distance, if you are outside your local calling area.

That's all. I'm done with this thread.

June 12, 2009
2:20 pm
bc
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OK, I'll stop beating the dead horse too 🙂 I believe you about the LD charge for all outgoing calls when you're away. again, that was my assumption before I heard otherwise in these forums and from SO.

but I still say their website does NOT clearly say what you said, despite your claim that it does so. the only mention of outgoing calls is for the case "While traveling, will my outgoing calls be long distance,

    if they are local to the city I am visiting?

" if they omit the phrase after the 2nd comma, then it 100% agrees with your statement. otherwise it's still ambiguous, because it doesn't address if the calls are not local to the city you are visiting, plus the sentence before they say all numbers in your local area code are local calls. (they don't say that statement only applies when you are physically in your local area)

anyhow I agree enough, on to other things. I guess I'll see for certain in a few weeks. either way, the FAQ on their site and this site should be clarified, IMHO.

have a great weekend

August 28, 2009
9:48 am
Peter
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Note that 7-Eleven has now added that phrase to the FAQ in question.

Nevermind, that phrase on the 7-Eleven site is still the same. I should really take a break from posting for a while, because everything I'm posting lately reflects something that I've misread or gotten wrong!

August 28, 2009
7:58 pm
iamdrumming
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Actually that has been there awhile now 🙂

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