>> I naively thought that cellphones behaved in a manner similar to computers
... I think that the fact you don't/can't get a list of calls that were missed while your phone was off was just an arbitrary design decision made by the engineers/programmers some time in the past. It would not be difficult for the system to log calls that were attempted to your phone while it was off, and then send that list to your phone when you turn it on. <
Thanks Walter. I agree that this sort of thing should be fairly easy to set up and not too expensive to implement.

I suggest that in fact the technology to send the text message when your phone returns to the system that is available in the Rogers Call Manager might have been more expensive to set up than some form of "off line logging" that would just alert the phone,

However the Call Manager System had the advantage (to Rogers) of being much easier to control for billing purposes. Not much that makes it into the cell phone interface isn't set up so that it can be added as a billable option -- or at least an add on option to entice you to buy the product or service.
The decisions about what gets installed on a handset and/or programmed into the system is not about technological possibility -- it is about bill add on possibility. The decisions about what gets enabled are made by the marketing departments, not the engineering and/or programming departments.

Smartphones are small computers. If the industry were run by those on the tech side rather than those on the marketing side, we would see lots of things that would be easy to implement in the phones. Because the industry is driven by hopes of financial gain, (some would word that as "greed") we see slow implementation of technology at ridiculous prices. The fact that there is a "market" for Unlocking, Jailbreaking, Rooting, Etc. phones says clearly that the full potential of the phones is being limited by the manufacturers -- usually at the request of the carriers. Apple is even more restrictive than the carriers -- and those restrictions are to make money for Apple.

The price of cell phone service in Canada is driven by what the market will bear, not the cost of providing that service. There are bits of competition, but those are few and far between.

... I think that the fact you don't/can't get a list of calls that were missed while your phone was off was just an arbitrary design decision made by the engineers/programmers some time in the past. It would not be difficult for the system to log calls that were attempted to your phone while it was off, and then send that list to your phone when you turn it on. <

Thanks Walter. I agree that this sort of thing should be fairly easy to set up and not too expensive to implement.

That's not such a naive thought at all. Today's digital cell phones and the infrastructure that supports them are 99% computer-like hardware, whose behaviour can be defined by software. I think that the fact you don't/can't get a list of calls that were missed while your phone was off was just an arbitrary design decision made by the engineers/programmers some time in the past. It would not be difficult for the system to log calls that were attempted to your phone while it was off, and then send that list to your phone when you turn it on.

RonM said:

The missed call list on a cell phone shows calls that you missed when you left the phone on but did not answer it -- either by choice or because you were not close enough to the phone to hear it ring. That function is completely in the phone and the phone has to be powered up for it to work.

There is no magic technology that will save that information to a phone that is powered off.

Text messages get delivered when you power your phone back on because they are like an email -- they are held on a server until delivered. They are not a pure "email" by the strictest definition but that is the closest analogy I can think of.

Phone calls have to be real time to work -- otherwise they are just voice mail

Rogers offer a service called Call Manager to business accounts that

Thanks Ron for your comprehensive answer!
I really appreciate your replies because they explain in detail all of the little things in layman's terms and are easy to understand.

I think I am getting a very good grasp now of what happens when calls are made to cellphones.

I naively thought that cellphones behaved in a manner similar to computers (I looked at them as miniature computers) and so just as computers can pick up e-mails in a delayed fashion, I thought cellphones could get caller information also in a delayed fashion, for missed calls, even if the phone was turned off (as computers can).

I just tried a new test, this time with my phone turned on, and yes the missed call feature does work correctly, indicating the caller and time of call.

It's nice to know that I'm not completely insane though, re: Roger's Call Manager service. This shows the technology exists to implement what I thought occurred for all customers.

There is no magic technology that will save that information to a phone that is powered off.

Text messages get delivered when you power your phone back on because they are like an email -- they are held on a server until delivered. They are not a pure "email" by the strictest definition but that is the closest analogy I can think of.

Phone calls have to be real time to work -- otherwise they are just voice mail

Rogers offer a service called Call Manager to business accounts that includes a text message saying you received a call while you were away -- the example they use is if you are flying and have your phone powered off. It doesn't flag the "missed call" marker on the phone, it sends a text message to your phone when your phone next connects to the system (along with any text messages saying you have voice mail if there is VM.) Rogers charge for that service on Rogers phones, SO doesn't offer it. So while it is technologically possible, it isn't going to happen on a SO phone.

If you want to know if someone called you but don't want to actually hear the phone ringing, turn off the ringer and leave the phone on. Next time you look it will show the details of any calls you have received since the last time you checked your phone. If you are in a class and phones are not allowed, turn off the ringer and leave the phone in your locker -- you will see who called you while you were away.

The fact that the voice mail stores the information about the time date and caller ID of a caller is a function of the VM system and is completely independent of the phone you use to pick up the voice mail and/or of the handset associated with your phone number.

iamdrumming said:

Again, the system does NOT record a call to your phone when your phone is turned off. There is no system I know of that does. You are never notified in any way that someone called you while your phone was off. You are only notified when someone left a voicemail.

Yes, accessing voicemail from a landline is free, because you are calling from a landline, not your SpeaKout phone, and not using airtime.

Thanks IAD. I had shifted my previous post strictly to voice mail calls.
On voice mail calls. I called SO a couple of hours ago to find out what happens when messages are left.

The guy actually had to check because he wasn't sure.
But he came back and said when someone leaves a voicemail AND you listen to it on your cellphone, you can press '5' to see the caller ID and time of call.

He also said that the caller ID and time of call will be in your missed call list.
I'd like to focus on this missed call list.

I have a notification area on my phone for calls/missed/voice messages etc. plus many other notifications.

I did a test voice message and the only thing that showed up on my phone was a note that a voice mail was waiting, it said: "new voicemail, dial +1-647-278-9956"
Where would this 'missed call' note be with the Caller ID + time of call?

I couldn't find it anywhere.
TIA

Yes, accessing voicemail from a landline is free, because you are calling from a landline, not your SpeaKout phone, and not using airtime.

aussielife said:

When someone calls when my phone is off, the call goes directly to the voice mail.

I see, and that's because you have a voice mail box set up.
I don't have one set up yet.
When you turn on your phone what do you see?
The caller's tel. number and time of call?

If I recall correctly, you are only charged for receiving a voice mail
if you listen to it with your cellphone right?
If you listen to it from a land line you aren't charged anything, correct?

iamdrumming said:

...As to why the system can't hold someone's number and time they called, you should direct that question to SpeakOut customer service, or Rogers customer service (or technical support). Rogers is the network SpeakOut uses.

OK thanks very much IAD.
The only reason I asked was because of the 'missed call' feature that my phone can alert you to. I didn't know if this was when your phone was turned on and you didn't answer it, or when your phone was turned off (or possibly both).

iamdrumming said:

I would think it's for all phone services. If a phone is off, it has no way to even know that it is being called, so no log of the call is recorded.

Yes, I too was thinking along these lines. But then I thought about the times when I tried to send myself some test text messages (with my phone turned off).
Hours later when I turned the phone on, the text messages turned up on the phone.

So there is a mechanism whereby the cell tower is holding the text messages.
If it can hold text messages for hours, why can't it hold the caller's number and time of call, for a missed call?

iamdrumming said:

No. They will only get a notification if there is a voicemail left.

Thanks Iam.
Is this standard for all phone services or just the way SO operates?
I ask because my new phone has various indicators for calls.
One is for missed calls. I assume a missed call is a call for which you either didn't hear the phone ring/ringer was off, or you had your phone turned off?

When you call someone who has a Speakout account and their phone is turned off, will they get a notification that they missed a call when they turn their phone on?

TIA

Anne said:

My experience with the above questions:
a) No, I've never been charged
b) No, I've never been charged
c) Yes (but if I've hung up within 1st second of a voicemail greeting sometimes it doesn't get charged)

No charge if you don't answer your phone or your phone is turned off.

Ahhhh.. I see. Very interesting. This is more like what I would have expected.
Thanks very much Anne.

SOmark said:

Still haven't made or received a call yet, so I'm basically sticking to my original plan with a cellphone.
I'd like to know if you are charged anything if you make a call but get:
a) just ringing
b) busy signal
c) answering machine

Also if someone calls me and I don't answer (or much more likely)
my phone is turned off, will I be charged anything?

TIA

My experience with the above questions:
a) No, I've never been charged
b) No, I've never been charged
c) Yes (but if I've hung up within 1st second of a voicemail greeting sometimes it doesn't get charged)

No charge if you don't answer your phone or your phone is turned off.